Pitch Please

00:00.00
mike_flywheel
Welcome back, everybody to to the pitch please podcast. It's Mike Tibito your host here today and we're going to be speaking with Amir from lexop welcome to the show Amir why don't we start with a quick introduction about your role at Lexop and let's learn a little bit about you.

00:15.76
Amir
Thanks Mike thanks for having me ah my name is Amir I'm the Ceo and co-founder of lexop a fintech company based out of Montreal.

00:24.51
mike_flywheel
That very nice and so let's talk a bit about how you got to be the head honcchho of this company out of Montreal called lexop maybe tell us a little bit about your background. You know where you started um your front Montreal before we started. You said you've. Been in Montreal your entire life and so let's talk about that time some of the experiences you've had maybe other places you've worked and how that's sort of shaped your journey to where you are today.

00:52.91
Amir
Sure sure of course. So um I'm a lawyer by by profession. so I'm so sorry nobody's perfect so I practice yeah so I practiced banking and and and bankruptcy law for about 8 years um and then we started legs op.

00:57.56
mike_flywheel
Okay, okay, got to watch what I'm going to stay then for the rest of the podcast.

01:10.87
Amir
Ah, with my with my co-founder Michelle and the idea was that um in our early days of entrepreneurship we were ourselves late on a lot of invoices just finances was terrible. And that's where we kind of became past due customers ourselves and that's when we experienced firsthand what it means to be past due and it's ah it's a terrible experience being in collections. It's very old school. You kind of it's rigid it's antagonizing. And people call you during supper time or you get letters like at home that says you're late the last call and that's that's where and we kind of clicked and we say you know why we should be able to improve this collection experience in today's age like there's so much we can do using technology right. The whole reason behind legstop is that collection tactics hasn't changed. They haven't changed in like 100 years but consumers have changed a lot consumers are a lot more digital people don't even answer phone calls anymore right. So everything is ah has to be done on the phone very easy self-serve and that's the whole mission behind leop is that we're trying to make leop we try to make collections a self-serve experience right? and remove the taboo of being in collections.

02:35.26
Amir
You know in a few words. That's the whole gist behind it. Yeah.

02:37.42
mike_flywheel
Yeah, so I want to go back because like we just jumped so far ahead. You're ah, talk to me about your journey of becoming a lawyer like was that your initial life purpose like you wanted to go into law you clearly studied law.

02:46.97
Amir
Of me. Are.

02:54.41
mike_flywheel
Sounds like you're practicing law for a bit. Um, maybe even just what inspired you to go into law and what type of law were you were you doing.

03:02.36
Amir
Yeah, so I I never dreamed of becoming a lawyer. It was just something I did because my my persian father kind of insisted on it but no initially I wanted to be an actor out of out of after college I did I did a little bit of theater. I played in a few very small roles and I wanted to go into l a before university and do auditions for a year and then my dad kind of did the reverse reverse mindsets and he said you know what go ahead and just do your bachelors become a lawyer. And after that I'll pay 1 year of fees whatever you have in la for your auditions and then you're like I'm like okay you know it's kind of a good deal and but then life takes you somewhere else and I became a lawyer and I practice you kind of forget about certain passions when you when you when you go deep into certain subject. And then that's it I did law for about 8 years also in Montreal and I studied my civil law my common law. Um and practiced for about 8 years at law firms and then a national bank of Canada so they'll almost always banking. Banking and a little bit of bankruptcy that was the that was the subject.

04:16.54
mike_flywheel
Okay, interesting. So I see how maybe some of that even tied into your knowledge around the financial aspects of law now and I have to go back so you wanted to be an actor. Um.

04:22.71
Amir
Um, oh yeah, absolutely it's it's helping me a lot with likesopia.

04:33.33
mike_flywheel
And so that was that was an initial early dream. What what drew you to acting and what time. Ah what type of acting did you want to did you want to do? what did you envision for yourself.

04:44.98
Amir
Um, um, nothing specific I mean I've always liked movies since I was a kid I'm a bit of a I was I was a class cloud I had always had good grades but I was a entertainer and with the fan with family events and I was a class climate at at school too. And it was I guess it was just a passion I was always very very fascinated by the movie scene and I wanted to do movies right? movies or Tv shows or back then Tv shows were less popular than movies. Um, so movies was the thing.

05:12.63
mike_flywheel
Yeah now now everything's a mini series like you can't watch anything on it. Yeah, you have to watch at least 3 to 6 episodes of something you can't just watch a single movie for an hour hour and a half so like.

05:16.88
Amir
Everything There's no more movies coming in out. Yeah, that's right, It's true.

05:28.45
mike_flywheel
Is there a type of movie that you like envisioned being in.

05:31.44
Amir
Um, um, no nothing specific? Um, but I like comedies a lot so judge judge Ah judge Ju Apado kind of style of movies like ah wedding crashers and stuff like that. That's the kind of humor that I like.

05:45.54
mike_flywheel
Yeah, that's hilarious so you want to be like someone that could uplift people's spirits by bringing some comedy to movies. Well, it's funny. Maybe you'll still be able to do that I mean there's some elements of being a founder that isn't acting but there is this element of performance and charisma that you need. So maybe.

05:55.57
Amir
Yep.

06:02.16
Amir
Person.

06:04.69
mike_flywheel
You're going to get to live it out and and bring that dream to something you're doing now Still so um, pretty cool. So then you went yeah not too. You can still be an actor I'm sure you can still do it like on the side if you find some time I don't think anyone's going to stop you? Um, but then you said you know.

06:07.35
Amir
Absolutely, It's still not too late.

06:21.54
mike_flywheel
You went to law school you kind of started going down that path. Um and then and then things changed now you were practicing law for like 8 years I'm sure that was extremely riveting I'm being sarcastic I'm joking lawyers have a very.

06:35.95
Amir
Ah, it was yeah it was not.

06:38.35
mike_flywheel
Strong purpose in the things we do I Just couldn't do it but you you know you were working in the law space. Um, what was like the moment and I I guess as you were a lawyer did you ever think you'd be an entrepreneurship like an entrepreneur or start a company like did you think that while you were being a lawyer.

06:54.88
Amir
Yeah, well I always I always wanted to be an entrepreneur I always had that and in me like this this curiosity but um, not in the early in the early days of being a lawyer and practicing it was that was meant the main focus right? You had to work so hard and pay your dues. But that kind of ah desire was kind of pushed down it was on a backburner and then as I became more and more of a senior lawyer and I was starting like to be more comfortable at what I do I started exploring a little bit my my other passions and this entrepreneurship was something that I wanted to. Ah, dig deeper into.

07:29.76
mike_flywheel
Interesting what what was like the thing I guess that inspired you in life or made you want to become an entrepreneur like was there some moment some person something you reflect on that. Made you want to be that there's something in your personality that you knew that would always be true. 1 day. You just didn't know when or for what like tell me about that experience of how you kind of realized you wanted to be an entrepreneur.

07:51.17
Amir
Uhu.

07:59.00
Amir
Um I guess I always wanted to create something and and have a team and I always had that it's not a question of ego thing I always wanted to create something and solve a problem using tech I always been fascinated by tech ah my dad is ah is a. An engineer himself like a network engineer so tech was always a subject. He has his own consultancy company. So kind of like a like mini entrepreneur so I got inspired by that. But ultimately. Also I think it's I I wanted to have an impact. Do something that actually affects a lot of people in a good way and in a way also like I always read. Ah so much all the stories of silicon valley of these big solutions that came in helped people and then there was exits. There was also and these founders became multimillionaires. And I'm like you know what I want to be a multi-millionaire too like this is this is the only way I can because I I come from ah I was four years old when we immigrated to to Montreal so I grew up kind of poor. So did the idea of having a big exit was always something that was. I was very curious about.

09:14.77
mike_flywheel
That's cool and I think it's special because I think um, when you reflect on the types. There's like a lot of variations of entrepreneurship right? There's people that build I talked about on one of my previous podcasts with Matthew Lombardi from 111 we were talking about. Funding and Vcs and when Vcs do and don't get involved versus when you take money from a bank and the concept of these like caught it I think he used the term like cottage startups or cottage businesses which is like these exits that are like $10000000 which is a massive amount of money but they're not the type of exits. That are like vc worthy. They're very good. They will get you. You know your house your cottage your car. A very relaxing lifestyle more money than probably most people need, but they're different and the pursuit of those is also different and the founders that go for those versus what it will take and the dreams and the vision of what you need to do to become like that.

09:47.99
Amir
O.

10:06.53
mike_flywheel
Silicon Valley the next massive global changing type company is is different so it's cool that you like part of your journey to this actually was grounded in like the inspiration of that and the desire even from like you know. Immigrating here you said 4 years old and then you know the dreams um and and it's really cool to see where people's dreams take them. You know there's another set of um founders co-founders brother and sister and 1 of the the brother had this book of dreams when he was younger and they used to discuss them that one day.

10:29.16
Amir
Uzu.

10:42.61
mike_flywheel
So it's cool and I think it's inspiring to see some people trip on the problem. Some people dream of that opportunity and it's cool that you got here. We're gonna do in a second I'd like to get your pitch on Lexop but before we do that I wanted to understand a little bit about um what inspired.

11:02.98
mike_flywheel
So you know you said something earlier about you saw a problem or you were running into this problem yourself and um I kind of want to understand the trigger the trigger where you said this this is it. That's the thing I was dreaming about here's the moment.

11:07.83
Amir
Over.

11:20.00
mike_flywheel
So talk about what lexop is I'm going to want to get your pitch but I want to know like what was that trigger for you.

11:26.10
Amir
Sure absolutely and it's funny. You mentioned the the cottage kind of a situation about ah startups. Um, when we started lexop as like an incorporation the name this was seven years ago and it was a legal tech. So it was a software communication platform that we had built for lawyers initially that was the product and then if we worked on it for about 3 years and made I made this you know it was making good money. Ultimately we sold it but we kept a name that we just sold the business and we took that money and we reinvested it in. What we are today which is a fintech in collections and the reason behind it is exactly that cottage scenario. You said we we noticed that the legal tech product was was growing but it was becoming a lifestyle business right? Not a Vc play and that's what we we wanted. We were assessed by that Vc Play wanted that big exit we wanted it as I don't know if it's good or bad and me we should have exited and then just went our all way and buy a car in the cottage. But now we wanted that big big. Ah big impact and big exit. So we sold the legal product and we invested in in the collections and reason we invested in collections. Is because um, we we in our early days as entrepreneurs that was the problem we kind of like faced both of us and we were already doing the legal tech solution but we were tight on money it was it was difficult I almost lost my house.

12:58.31
Amir
Twice? Um, it was a guy who was really tough until he got better and during that tough time we used to talk about me and my cofounder about how man it was terrible being in collections. Why why hasn't that changed in like 80 years why is it so old school if I have to make a payment agreement. Have to call someone and be on the phone for like an hour can I not just do it on the phone or can I not just make a payment agreement. Can they be more empathetic with me. Um, and there's also that mentality of debt when your past due you don't even feel like talking to anyone right? It's a bit embarrassing. Um. So that's where all that talk kind of came back and we said you know what we believe in this we believe collection is another hot topic and another reason why it kind of clicked and we said this is the right call is we did 2 big accelerators as a startup. 1 of them was called founder fuel that was in 2017 that was in Montreal and then in 2018 we did one of the biggest accelerators in the world called 500 startups in San Francisco so we went there. We lived there. And the purpose is to accelerate ideas right? accelerate go-to-market. So they test you you you learn a lot and during that time we met um, a mentor who told us you know Ah, we were thinking about this idea that we had moving away from legal tech.

14:23.46
Amir
And it said you know collection. What's coming in this economy collection is going to be a very very hot topic. So if you guys can find and and it's also taboo subjects so it hasn't been innovated much when we when we started lexop in collections and improving collections. We were basically like. 3 or 4 competitors in the market now it's about 8 but still, it's not that much collection isn't something that its people have pushed to innovate and that's that was how kind of the trigger you know, somebody said another somebody somebody we respected a lot told us that. Collection is going to be a hot topic. We experienced it also and what we did was we kind of created a minimum butable product and we went to see um we had to contact a friend of mine who's still a friend. Worked out as a executive vice president at a big telco here. Montreal called videoron um, and we went we pitched. We like if we build this is this something that would help you collection process and they said yeah, definitely so we kind of spent 2 years building it with them. And they were our early adopter great and we launched in 2019 and then after that that was that product was ours and we replicated it and we sold it to other big enterprise companies and they kind of like validated that was had started.

15:51.78
mike_flywheel
That's cool. What I love about what you're saying for some founders like that moment was like 1 one moment but I think what you're also alluding to is that that that moment of inspiration isn't always like a day in your life like it sounds like it happened over a period of time. There is these.

16:03.97
Amir
Move.

16:09.24
mike_flywheel
Experiences that you were experiencing with your first startup where you were having you were on the other end of collections conversations and not because you're a bad person like things are tough for time like time is ah a challenge like sometimes you keep up with all the things coming at you and you were experiencing like these emotions that you were like I don't want to.

16:18.95
Amir
Yeah.

16:28.61
mike_flywheel
Feel like this I don't want to feel like I'm letting people down and so I'm shutting down I'm just you know like it's so overwhelming and it's so much and it gives me like this reaction and then you know simultaneously maybe on a different timeline. You had a mentor or respected person in your life talking about elements of this.

16:44.19
Amir
Also.

16:46.89
mike_flywheel
And then you kind of had some collisions with some companies that may also have this problem and so on different timelines these things evolve like sometimes people think like a startup started this one day in the backyard while having some beers with my buddy while working on my barbecue having.

16:56.51
Amir
Ah, yeah.

17:02.77
mike_flywheel
You know a great cookoff and dammit. There's never a good grill cleaner and Boom The idea was born but it's not always like you know it's not always like that. Sometimes it's like a journey of things that just keep coming back in your mind and planting these seeds and fester and then you have to do it and sounds like that's kind of how it came to life for Lexop if I'm if I'm.

17:08.31
Amir
Ah, yeah.

17:20.71
Amir
Yeah, exactly it was just a series of events that kind of crystallized into like okay you know what this is worth it that for us to dig into this and go all in.

17:21.84
mike_flywheel
Understanding correctly.

17:34.41
mike_flywheel
That's cool. Um, again I still want to hear your pitch. But 1 thing you you mentioned accelerators. Um for any other about to be founders or current founders. Can you tell me a little bit. It sounds like that was very impactful for you.

17:37.34
Amir
Sure.

17:50.21
mike_flywheel
Would you highly recommend. Joining an accelerator is an accelerator for everyone. Are there guardrails or you're like listen if this is what you're trying to do accelerator but it's not for everyone. There's pros and cons talk to me a little bit about that. We don't have to talk about these specific accelerators If you you can if you want to but the concept.

18:04.49
Amir
No, we can. It's just it's a good question. Yeah.

18:09.60
mike_flywheel
Accelerators. Yeah I'd love to like share some of that with founders because maybe they're just like working on what they're working on and like the only thing they think about is can I get funding and they're kind of you know blinders onto all these other elements that aren't always funding. So I'd love to hear thoughts.

18:15.75
Amir
Yeah, absolutely I think it's absolutely worth it. Especially if you come from background that you know you you don't know much about startups and fundraising. You don't come from that world I wasn't there my cofounder either. So we didn't know exactly what we didn't even know what the word startup was we didn't even know what scaleup was so we didn't we didn't know what benchmarks were so that was really ah 2 great experiences of our lives. Ah the first one that we did founder fuel was in Montreal was fantastic because it taught us the the fundamentals. What it is what it is what to expect from the market. Ah often you think about these success stories these overnight success stories but you learn and you learn in theseiliators like you know a software business typically it takes six seven to 7 to 10 years before it doesn't exit. If you look at all these stories of of Twitter of of airbn airbnb pivoted 4 times before he became with the r today. Um Jack Dorsey from Twitter once wrote I'm an overnight success story that took 10 years right so these these stories take time. And I think it's very good to to learn to know these because it sets expectations. It makes you more resilient so that if you have multiple little you know failures or miss because you will. You will have multiple failures and and obstacles and things are not going your way but at least if you know that this is not a 1 ne-year story.

19:54.90
Amir
Is supposed to take 7 to 10 years. You become more resilient so that was the first thing we learned when we did a founder fuel I think the main thing and also you learn how to pitch pitching is very important and one of the things. Um, when we were there we learned is ah. The partners that found it. Phil said if we ask you if I ask you? What do you do? He was telling all these you know young entrepreneurs and ceos like if I ask you? What do you do and he had this big english accent if I ask you what you do please resist the urge of answering. And we're all like what is what do you mean because often what happens is that is he said bring the bring the person where you want to go and then I'll tell you and what that means is that if you ask me hey what's likesop typical answer would be well. Lexsop is a financial technology company that helps you. But what I'm going to do in the next few seconds when you're ask me that question is going to be different so I won't tell you what the secret is but I'll come and we'll you'll see what it is. It's about bringing it's about the journey. Ah so it's about the journey right? It's somebody asked. What do you do? He doesn't really care about exactly what you do is like what what really matters.

20:57.41
mike_flywheel
I'm excited I'm excited to try this differently.

21:07.54
Amir
How did that impact me that's the real question and you have to make it about them if you want that pitch to resonate right? So you'll see it in a few seconds. Um, and then when we did 500 startups that was in San that was fantastic because that was kind of the big leagues. That's where we we made up a lot of connections and network again I come you know immigrant family 4 years old grew up or didn't have a lot of contacts in the startup world or Silicon Valley or San Francisco so that allowed us to have um, a. To build that network meet a lot of important people who are still helping us today and being mentors of our course this is many years later so I absolutely recommend it. But the only thing is that when you do accelerators you kind of have to still operate your company and do the accelerator. So it's tough very tough.

21:59.11
mike_flywheel
M.

22:04.24
Amir
And oftentimes during these programs. They ask you to test things test different marketing channels test different scenarios and sales processes. What that does is that you burn through Cash So before doing an accelerator I Always recommend to you know other ceos that I talk to. Make sure you have enough runway to cover that period of time where you have to spend a little bit more you have to burn a little bit more money to test various things and so that's the the only like caveat to that.

22:36.20
mike_flywheel
I think that's really good coaching and guidance and I think the the other piece that you mentioned there like you're doing. You're running and operating your business and you're in an accelerator. You're not a business for the accelerator and so you do have to remember to wear those 2 hats you have to live.

22:48.81
Amir
Help? Yeah, um. Yeah, spread.

22:53.42
mike_flywheel
Every day of your company and drive the every day of your company and you need to take the advice in coaching and things you're doing with the accelerator but you shouldn't just do what the accelerator tells you and that's kind of where you stop. You do need to be doing both and and I really like the guidance um around cash and holy shit. Do I feel vulnerable now because I'm worried.

23:02.72
Amir
M.

23:11.88
mike_flywheel
Now I'm going to have to learn and play into this new form of pitching but you know what this whole show is about it and so Amir let's do this your pitch please I'm nervous.

23:18.26
Amir
Ah, those guys it's subtle. It's running. Um, so what's what's your so let me ask you is have you ever been in collections Mike have you ever missed an invoice in your life.

23:31.76
mike_flywheel
I've definitely I've definitely had an experience multiple where you know I'm a huge fan Elvato bill but where you can't auto bill in parts of your life I'm like you know oh that stack of mail. The the electricity bill the hydro bill and it's not because like I don't want to pay it. It's just it's in a pile there I thought I paid this month but it was actually last month like you just there's so many things in life and so I definitely can relate and I can also relate to the feeling when I get that text message or I see like. Rogers called me I'm like oh I forgot this thing. So yeah I've been there and think a lot of people have been there and I probably been there way more than I'm willing to admit when I was back in university.

24:13.95
Amir
Um, but and so that's that's what we're trying to do at Alexa. We're trying to make sure that you never feel that way again. Even if you're late next time we're trying to remove the embarrassment of collections by using technology. We're trying to make it more humane. By using technology. We created a software that we sell to big companies so that they can improve their collection approach with their consumers. It's about making it empathetic flexible self-serve and you can make a payment agreement in less than 3 minutes on your phone without having to talk to anyone so that's what Lixop is we're providing better payment and collection solutions to the world.

25:02.14
mike_flywheel
That's that sounds super helpful and I can see where and how I would feel better about the way that I get approached sometimes so maybe we start with the who's using it. So you said large companies. Um. And maybe define that like who's the it. So always good to know like who's the smallest person that could take advantage of lexop um to the largest organization in your vision and then also who's kind of using it today i' be good to learn a little bit about that.

25:32.53
Amir
Sure so we mainly target ah companies enterprise and and industries that have a lot of account receivable volume right? If you don't have enough volume lexop is not if you only have 100 of ah pass due accounts per month. Go use Quickbooks right? The next stop is not for you. But if you're a big telco with millions of customers. If you're a bank with a lot of ah products out there where people are passed you on their payments like credit card payments auto loan payments credit line payments student loan payments. Um, and if you're for example, a utility like a water electricity gas provider that has a lot of customers and they can be late on their invoices. That's our target so and financial institutions telcos and utilities. However, our bread and butter. What we really focus on is financial institutions. Ah, banks credit unions autoleders we work with we Don Volkswagen is 1 of ros money finance canada is 1 of our clients fairstone financial is 1 of our clients. Um, there's. Ah, we have some and water and then utility provider called hydro solution or one the biggest ones in the province. That's one of our clients. There's other couple of other financial institutions that are our clients but're around their and nda so I can't really name them. But that's that's our target.

26:56.52
mike_flywheel
That's totally fine that that makes a lot of sense and so you are a B Two B solution. Um, but the scenarios you're talking about are are you is lexop generally for companies that have B Two C collections or.

27:00.86
Amir
Yeah, me to be Sas.

27:13.20
mike_flywheel
B Two B work as well or you're agnostic, but obviously B Two C has a higher volume and so that's why you've kind of used it is it for both. Got it. Um.

27:19.50
Amir
Exactly that it's for both. Ah but we target in terms of go-tomarket approach and focus and what we spend on is to Target B to c companies so we're kind of like b two b to c in terms of value. Creation.

27:38.26
mike_flywheel
That that makes sense so teach me about this industry a little bit earlier in the show. You talked about you know, there's very few companies innovating collections. Um, maybe talk about how collections are generally handled. Um.

27:48.79
Amir
Um, oh.

27:55.16
mike_flywheel
How busy is this space and then we can kind of go from there and you know you've mentioned some of the people and companies that use it. So let's let's just talk about like how busy the space is how collections are normally handled that way when we talk about how Lexop does it differently. It'll make a lot of sense for people.

28:02.68
Amir
Sure.

28:10.89
Amir
Definitely. So if you're let's say you're know your financial institution and you have a 100000 people who are passed due in a given month. Usually what happens is that those accounts will go or your telco. Whatever it is those accounts will go through different delinquency buckets. You have up to thirty days pass due up to sixty days passed due ninety days passed due and then usually after 90 to give that's how it works in Canada and the us as well. Usually after 90 that's what they write it off to collection agency. So if you look at your credit score on transunion or Equifax and if you look if you're late on a few invoices. There's a code there. It says like you'll you'll see like r one is like I was late on one payment and up to thirty days it says three zero or like r 2 2 payments and sixty days six zero but it's always works like that even with credit and scoring agencies thirty sixty ninety and then kind of write it off ah most companies. In fact, all of our clients. Um, they used to send regular mail or email. That didn't really convert they used to send mail at home that doesn't convert at all people are non-responsive to letter mail people used to make robocalls that doesn't convert either and that's that's where we came in we we use we believe at like file to use.

29:42.65
Amir
Only digital channels sms or email or even Whatsapp for South America to catch the person's attention because rule number one of collections is to catch the person's attention and if you don't do it at the right time with the right tone with the right message. You will not convert mike into a paying customer. I have to have so so that's what we do at lexop we have hyper targetgeed personalized message. We have a lot of data on demographics I know what's the right message to send to mike based on his demographics based on how many days' length to convert right? It's not a perfect science. But we were perfecting it every day. So if somebody is five days passed due they should never receive the same message that somebody that's fifty. Five days passed due right? very different approach very different tone and for the past seven years that's the broader the problems with collection is that they would put everybody in the same bucket. Everybody was treated the same which is horrible. Not everybody. We believe that that's not supposed to be the case right? You can tailor your message be a bit more firm on your messaging when somebody's like seventy days pass due. But you should still still a customer right? They should be treated well and nowadays human interaction has become an obstacle to certain to to certain things like payments people don't want to deal with people when it comes to payments. They want to do it on their phone. That's it.

31:16.85
Amir
That's the whole premise given it. That's how usually collections worked.

31:19.47
mike_flywheel
Got it. So so I'm going to want to learn a little bit more how it works initially when we started and you told me collections I was like this guy looks like he works out I think I know how they're getting the money back. You show up at my door. You start knocking I'm going to give you money whatever you say, but it sounds like it's a different way and there's a lot more empathy to it.

31:35.24
Amir
Be that was very good.

31:38.44
mike_flywheel
Um, so you were saying that you know you you like that. Ah you were saying that there's like this element of like digital Highly customizable targeted with empathy maybe talk me through a little bit about what that.

31:46.41
Amir
So.

31:56.74
mike_flywheel
Looks like so if I'm a company. Um I load up these people I have parameters and then I start to customize the messages that go out tell me a little bit about how that works tell me a little bit about what those messages sound like and then it's. Sounds like I think you mentioned at the end people don't like your path to payment also sounds like an element of lexop is like you find a way to make path to payment really simple and and streamlined so tell me about how that works a little bit. Don't give away all your secrets. But yeah.

32:20.48
Amir
100%

32:28.78
Amir
You should work at Lex sub mike you know you you you you pitch it pretty well. Um, so essentially how it works is that so we're a Saas platform so cloud-based.

32:33.20
mike_flywheel
I get I get so I get so invested in the startups that come on this show. It's dangerous. It's dangerous.

32:45.83
Amir
Let's say we sell to ah to a bank and they they license our software they use it internally so they operate it It's not like we operate the software for our clients we're we're purely a technology company so we sell the technology they implemented and then let's say any given month or every week send out their collection campaigns that your crm indicates on here. The 50000 people who are late they load up that information into nexttop and then they should have some settings to say all right? So the for the people are thirty days past due. We're gonna send this message and so you target your messaging. Create workflows and it's all automated in Leop and then you launch your campaigns and it's all sent then you might you get your your message or the whether it's sms or email that says you know it's completely white labeled you don't see lexop anywhere. It's important. Otherwise you'll think it's Fishishing. You don't have any relationship with lexop.

33:41.61
mike_flywheel
Yeah, it's exactly what I was thinking? yeah.

33:42.81
Amir
You have a relationship with your bank. It's a full so fully white labeled experience and it says dear Mike we ah we noticed that you're late, but don't worry just click on resolve and find the solution so right away on your phone without havinging to log in into another portal without having to calling in. Just click on resolve and you go into this nice portal where you would pay full. You can make a minimum payment. You can make a payment arrangement and then once you've chosen that kind of flexibility. You have a lot of options of payments. You can pay with credit card. You can pay use that debit you can link. Any bank account that you have in the Canada or in the United States into it just by um, putting your online credentials. The one of the problems of of classic collection problem is that let's say you're a bank. You only have access to the bank account that is linked at the moment you can only. Take money for the money is already been initially is but what if my actually changed my bank account and my my my salary now my payroll is deposited into another bank hsbc let's say I want to link my hsbc account now. So that next up allows you to do that link multiple accounts anywhere. They are. And just a few clicks. So once you've chosen your flexibility you chosen where the source of my funds are you click on confirm done. You just made a payment agreement in less than 2 minutes on the comfort of your home without having to talk to anyone so that's the user. That's the the consumer journey.

35:15.57
mike_flywheel
That's amazing.

35:16.79
Amir
And then on the other hand our clients let's say the bank for example, has access to the alexop software dashboard where you have all your analytics where you see money money coming in you track who paid who didn't pay you know exactly how many people. Clicked on payment but didn't pay something happened so you can be proactive so there's a lot of data lot of interaction data that you can use to make your collection campaigns better to polish them as you go forward the more you use Legsop. That's ah usually how it works about a clients the more they use likeop. The better. They know how to interact with their customers because there's more data on it I'll give you an example that was kind of a funny example little ah the sure.

35:57.61
mike_flywheel
That makes sense and so does this 1 quick question. 1 quick question Amir does this plug back into their systems. Um, so that they don't have to like it's not just a separate dashboard like I imagine if I made a payment lexops. Platform knows I made a payment I assume that feeds back into their systems near real-time maybe but I start to interrupt you but are there integrations that I don't know this space well but if you're a listener listening and thinking about collections. Are there integrations that this already just does for you to help streamline that so you don't.

36:18.70
Amir
Um, yeah, ah.

36:31.44
mike_flywheel
Text message or email me like 5 times after I've made the payment because I know that happens with companies so often right? I'm like I just friggin paid you.

36:34.85
Amir
Yeah, so we have two ways to true absolutely and that is a ah real concern and there's 2 ways to reconcile information so that you know you to make sure that your system is always updated. 1 way that we do. It is. What we call the manual way kind of easy is at the end of the day lexop always sends a daily report to the customer. It's just an excel with everything that has happened during the day so they data that excel sheet and just update it in their crm. Everything's updated, but we also have a full suite of apis. We can connect the plumbing and be connected directly into the client's system and have that bidirectional real-time feed. Um, and it's both ways are good just one of them is a and a little bit easier in terms of a faster I would say in terms of updating the system. However, it takes a little bit of work for most of our clients. In fact, all of them started the excel sheet or import cheatway and then ultimately when they saw the results of legop in the ah roi is incredible. They're like okay I here. Let's let's connect the plumbing and go with the vi the Api route.

37:48.25
mike_flywheel
Amazing I know that that's like a huge piece I can totally see why they would do that. It's like pilot it it works Oh my gosh can we just make faster streamline Sorry continue on I know you were ah you were talking about some stuff. Let's let's keep going.

37:50.57
Amir
Yeah, exactly.

38:00.46
Amir
Um, yeah, know that was that was the main thing it was both to finish with the um, the dashboard right? when user journey is done and they paid the dashboard allows our clients to track everything and what it does is that by offering a flexible digital digital Journey. You Also create Brand Loyalty. So Let's say your Paas do Mike and you get this little nice message that says don't worry and allows you to resolve your account on your own. You're like man that was nice all right I'm I'm happy with Xbank you know they're good people so it creates that brand loyalty as Well. And that's they're very valuable.

38:40.50
mike_flywheel
Well and I think that's the funny part because sometimes um like I'm always busy whether I'm spending some time doing podcasts with amazing founders and and Canadian startups or I'm working my job or I've got family commitments. Things pile up. It's not because I don't have the ability to go make that payment like it's some other factor now that could happen in some cases but like I feel like a criminal every I feel like a criminal every time because some things slip my mind things slip my mind all the time not just collections I'm like oh I forgot this item at the grocery store I went there to buy groceries.

39:01.20
Amir
Absolutely, That's a good point.

39:15.97
mike_flywheel
And I forgot the number 1 item on my damn list. So like we're busy people in life and sometimes we forget things but it wasn't intentional and so when messages come and make it seem like it was intentional I'm like whoa like whoa slow down like I get it. Rogers.

39:21.78
Amir
Yeah, absolutely.

39:32.70
mike_flywheel
You need your $95 this month like that's not a problem I'll give you your $95 I just literally just forgot to pay that because I just did it like at the tail end of last month and I'm trying to calculate like real-time when's thirty days because it's e-billing and I get 700 emails like that's life. So I can totally see how a different approach.

39:51.11
Amir
Um, and you know what.

39:52.64
mike_flywheel
Would make me feel a little bit different with band's brands sorry Rogers like maybe I guess you need to talk to lexop I keep I keep referencing examples that I've got happening in my life and I don't mean to throw any brand under the bus I'm sorry oh boy fuck.

39:58.82
Amir
Ah, yeah, one I've been trying to reach out to them for a while. They're not They're not taking my call. Yeah I've been trying to reach out to Rogers for a while. They're not taking my call. Um, ah you know most of the time we we do a lot of ah. Research at likeop a lot of um consumer behavior and 60% of the time when people are past due is not because they're absolute delinquents. It's not not even for softentime for financial reasons is because either they forgot they were on vacation. Something has happening and that's where we come in Alexa we we're soft collections right? We're early collections one day past due up until forty days past due. That's where you know Don low hanging food use technology to automate those people and then for people who are more than fifty days past due. Then that deserves a human an agent excuse me put in a human on it. But before that that bucket of people don't deserve to be harassed called nothing allow them to self-serve and that's the whole mission That's what the focus is early collections. Deserves a different approach.

41:16.12
mike_flywheel
I love it. Um, couple questions. How and I was talking with your team recently in full disclosure I work for Microsoft lexops on our platform. They're also in the marketplace. So if you're looking to procure.

41:27.78
Amir
Whistle.

41:33.90
mike_flywheel
You can procure them directly or go into the Azure marketplace which could make your procurement simpler seeing little Shoutouts Um, as you think about this and you know the thing by the way I'm so passionate about this. Um I've been talking to people recently about this but like when you think of the ecosystem.

41:34.86
Amir
E.

41:51.55
mike_flywheel
What I love about my job at Microsoft is you know is you're joking like oh you should come work at Lexop I love that I get to talk at my job and through this podcast to the wide variety of people solving so many problems like that variety gives me so much energy. To see all of the things problems I knew about problems I didn't know about and the thing I will get even more passionate about is companies that have these problems not always trying to solve it themselves if it's not their core competency. So I'm very very passionate about seeing those collisions happen. Um.

42:20.30
Amir
Exactly.

42:26.78
mike_flywheel
So in that if you need to solve how you're approaching collections. You should dock to leapp we'll make sure all their stuff's linked but Amir tell me like where or how you make money is it based on volume of collections is it like a single priced service. How does that kind of work if if some. Client is looking to purchase and implement lex up.

42:45.62
Amir
So we which we it's very much subscription based Saas It's a yearly license or monthly. But it's yearly usually and it's based on the number of accounts that you want to treat per month. That's it. It's very very simple pricing very predictable.

43:01.34
mike_flywheel
Got it.

43:04.98
Amir
Ah, so somebody that has 10000 accounts per month. That's what the volume they want to go through treat per via exop is going to be different than somebody. That's a 100000 accounts obviously the 100000 accounts will be a bigger subscription but the unit economics will be less. You'll pay less per account per month. Ah, more you have volume. So typically it's like between $3 per per account per month they could go as low as seventy cents per account per month depending on the kind of volume that you have.

43:34.46
mike_flywheel
Awesome and you know what? that's probably like a really good way to frame it because like you know people are probably wondering. Is it like oh whenever we talk to collections and maybe these are the ones past ninety days but they're like oh they take 20% of whatever they recover maybe it was like oh we'll take five or ten percent of everything you're sending out and we scoop through the app.

43:49.47
Amir
Ah, here.

43:54.24
mike_flywheel
But it sounds like you've made it very simple. It's based on the volume of users that you're using this for and and customers the B Two C Accounts Um, which is which is super simple so you've made a very simple predictable Saas model. Um, let's talk about like your team.

44:01.69
Amir
That's right.

44:12.30
mike_flywheel
So as you've gotten through this you know you've said yeah, you've been in business a while you've got lots of customers amazing names that you've mentioned some you couldn't mention that are using the product. Um, this is your second startup that you're you're going through the journey on what are like.

44:20.80
Amir
Um.

44:28.85
mike_flywheel
Some of the most memorable moments of lexop for you things that stand out in your journey that you think you'd love to share.

44:37.64
Amir
Um, one of the most memorable moments I a couple but I would say the first one and terms of timeline was when we had the ah still the legal tech product. The first check we got. 100 from a client from a law firm $136 and we were ecstatic. We were the happiest we spent double that celebrating that one hundred and thirty six dollars right we just I'm on beer. And we were so happy I'll never forget the rest of my life that one hundred and thirty six dollars check it was kind of like hey somebody's willing to pay for this to pay for our product. It was such a moment kind of such a validating moment and then fast forward like two months ago um we signed a huge like a million dollar contract over 5 years and everything and we kind of looked back me and my cofounder were like remember that one hundred and thirty six dollars well now we're like doing a million dollar contract it's kind of cool you know good progress. We're okay. We're okay, ah, so that was one moment. The other moment was like the first pitch day that we did the first I was at the end of every accelerator there's something called demo day. You demo you pitch product and the first one that we did at founder fuel was this big demo front of hundreds of people.

46:03.10
Amir
But you have practiced your pitch for weeks and weeks and you pitch it and it's 5 minutes only and then people stood up and clapped and they loved the idea that was I would I would say that was another moment that was fantastic and there's there's excuse me, there's there's many more and I would say the first time I still get that. Every time I go to the office and the elevator opens and I see legs up. It's on the wall right to front the elevator I still get butterflies every time and that's a great feeling.

46:37.48
mike_flywheel
That's so special I love like the contrast to all 3 of those things but I can see how they're memorable like that validation that one hundred and thirty six dollars check it's that about it's not about the amount on that check it's about the fact that you are building something.

46:47.13
Amir
If missing.

46:52.50
mike_flywheel
This desire to change the world and impact people and now you've started you have people that have validated the impact that you wish to drive is meaningful and I think the contrast to that first million dollar contractor 1 of the million dollar contracts and I'm sure there will be many many many more. That just shows like the journey you've been on and I think that you know you can contrast a million to 136 shows the progress and then it validates the time and energy you and the team behind you have been putting in and it doesn't surprise me that you love that pitch like you said you wanted to be an actor. So.

47:27.30
Amir
Um, the eyes show. There's this little bit of performance to it.

47:27.32
mike_flywheel
Think you're starting to you know those pitch days and those demo days you're getting that actor life out of you and then I'm just right? and then I'm picturing that elevator opening like the way you described It is just like so vivid like you come and the elevator door is open and you have this moment of pride of this thing. You've been building. And then you take some steps towards that sign and you start to see the people and the energy in the office that you have created and that those people are contributing to creating. It's right so special. Um with everything of amazing stories. Is there like a ah challenging story.

47:52.79
Amir
Um, the chaos. It's beautiful.

48:05.89
mike_flywheel
Sticks out in your mind because you know I think some podcasts talk about all the amazing things. My first million dollars but I think it's like you said this multiple times like even in your first startup like there's lows and if you are not ready and prepared for the lows and if you're not ready to be like overnight success.

48:10.57
Amir
Who.

48:18.21
Amir
Oh yeah.

48:23.79
mike_flywheel
Actually takes 10 years if you're not ready for that like someone needs to sit you down and have the real conversation before you make this jump to entrepreneurship and so I'd love to hear some of those raw stories that you think people should you know, reflect on or know about for themselves um of some of maybe the challenges or hardships along your journey.

48:27.89
Amir
Yes.

48:40.93
Amir
Um, I would say 2 things that and as as a Ceo um, there's 3 main things you do right? you establish vision you build a build a great team and you make sure there's money in the bank most of times. It's the third one making sure money is in the bank. Is. What's going to keep you up at night. Um, it's it's cash management and making sure that you can hit payroll that is that is so hard, especially at the beginning when you're still trying to find that product market fit making sure that you have predictable business coming in and revenue coming in. That is you know so many times I have in made my profile that we've cut out our salaries for like a year we were on unemployment technically so that we could at least pay our employees. There's a lot of moments like that I almost lost my house twice just because I couldn't pay the tax municipal taxes. There's a lot of moments like that and I'm certainly not the only startup to say that because I have a lot of other Ceo friends who have a network of we have startups and they all go through the same um, same hustle. Um, and. So that's one of them the the cash management you will go so difficult times until you find your niche and your never replicable business coming in. Um the one is also make know the team is is very important right? The hustle I have you know the expression higher slowly fire fast.

50:12.23
Amir
So we I'm very proud that we have we have a truly exceptional team top tier talent truly devoted and I remember 1 of them when we were going through hard hard times a little bit I went to see ah every one of the employees and I told them listen they know. Ah. Yearr unfortunately I won't be able to give to bonuses but just no, we just go into a little bit of a hard time but I promise and soon as we raise our next round. Everything will be paid cumulatively and 1 of the employees actually a lot of them same the same angle but 1 of them says hey Ammir don't worry about my bonus. Ah, but you make sure you pay yourself first and I was like I felt like crying on that spot I'm like Jesus we have we have this kind of quality people around us. This guy doesn't want his bonus. He wants to make sure that I'm paid. So these moments are actually hard but super memorable to super touching and I'm like. And got holy I cryed I was like I felt like this is one of the worst and best feelings ever. Um, so you go through you go through a lot of lot of those so and hiring the right people ah is hard but when you do can be extremely um, valuable and uplifting and can. The right people can help you navigate very hard times.

51:32.93
Amir
Now.

51:34.11
mike_flywheel
Man listen to me listening to your journey your advice. Um, do you even realize how proud you would make 4 year old you coming coming to Canada many many many maybe ten years ago you don't look that old but man like.

51:44.10
Amir
Um, you're acting so I hope so.

51:49.32
mike_flywheel
The journey you've been on the impact you've had I'm sure you make your family and yourself deep down inside so proud if not make sure you feel that pride because you deserve it. My friend. Um, we'll make sure we reference you know before we close out where people can find out more about lexop.

51:58.41
Amir
Thank you appreciate it.

52:08.62
mike_flywheel
Um, but before we do that is there any kind of closing advice I know you've given so much grateful advice to to other people listening or founders any closing thoughts that you'd want you know to tell other entrepreneurs or maybe tell your 4 year old self dreaming of like this this moment.

52:26.85
Amir
Um, you know if I was to talk to but um to myself before I started this entrepreneurial journey I would tell myself you know I here. Don't worry about clients and product and security and all of that. The hardest part I think of being an entrepreneur is beyond the cash stuff is is people management right? because you're responsible of people. You know when you're a small team of 3 people you wear different hats and we used to do that. You know you're a salesperson your security your customers of board your everything. But as a team grows it. You know people management is such a critical um critical aspect it's it's and it's hard right? because you have to make sure that motivated they have to make sure that day everybody is motivated compensated rewarded and every excited but that's every day you have to do that. So. The higher you are in a company the more you have to care about people management and and I think this is something that I would ah tell myself earlier that to to focus on that although we're very I would say at nexttop we care a lot about the people ops and people team we take care of our team. But I wish I did it earlier. I wish I had I knew what I know now a bit earlier in terms of because when you manage people well when you care about them. It really changes everything in the company retention is better. A turnover is less so you need people in your saas company or a tech company. It's your biggest asset. It's your people.

53:59.37
Amir
Don't have hardware. You don't have anything. It's just people people who are creating things with you So people management is the most important thing going forward.

54:10.87
mike_flywheel
That's that's great advice and I'm sure like in the race for features and clients all these things and and I've talked about this before but sometimes it's It's not that you don't care about people. It's that maybe you get so busy in the same way. Maybe forget to pay a bill.

54:25.43
Amir
Um, absolutely yeah.

54:27.57
mike_flywheel
You get so busy and tied up and driving forward that you forget this moment that that's people that are bringing it to life. It's people that are buying it. It's people that it's impacting. It's people that it uses and so amazing. Amazing advice.

54:39.76
Amir
Why don't you. So I think read an article left long ago. It says people product profit. That's how you should think about your business always think of your people they'll take care of it. Take give your customers. That's the people part deal build the product take care of them and then the product.

54:48.31
mike_flywheel
People first.

54:56.81
Amir
And then the profit will come.

55:01.34
mike_flywheel
Super special. Um, if people want to find out more where or how should they get a hold of you or lexop we should probably spell lex up because I'm sure people are spelling in like 5 different ways in their head but like where where should people go in here and we'll link all this too. But.

55:12.15
Amir
Yeah, so you have it here L E a Lex Lex O P dot Com That's where all the information is and you can reach out to us. We have our support system or chat on the on the module. We're always we're very responsive.

55:16.97
mike_flywheel
Where should people go Ah okay.

55:31.90
Amir
Like sob.com is the best place.

55:31.55
mike_flywheel
Amazing. So lexop, got it lexop.comlexop.com or you can find them in the azure marketplace as well either or um, Amir thank you thank you so much.

55:36.82
Amir
That's right.

55:43.92
Amir
Thank you Mike.

55:47.33
mike_flywheel
Um, for sharing your story today for telling us a bit more about your background your journey your successes and hardships along the way and about um the amazing work that lexop is doing to humanize um collections in a very powerful way.

56:03.63
Amir
Um, my pleasure.

56:03.76
mike_flywheel
Thanks again for joining us today. Everybody who listened in. Thank you for listening to another episode of pitch please and we'll catch you on the next episode have a good one Amir.

56:10.42
Amir
Take care.