Pitch Please

00:07.27
mike_flywheel
Welcome everybody to the pitch please podcast where we spotlight canada's best startups elevator pitches and amazing people behind them. We're here today with Emma Brown from wimble. Maybe m I'll pass it over to you to talk. To everybody a bit about who you are what your role at wimble is and you know a bit background on like where you started and how you got here.

00:36.27
Emma _she_her_
Thanks for having me Mike I'm excited to be on the podcast. Um, so yeah, my name is Emma I'm the founder of wimblecare. So I kind of wear all the hats at the moment we're a small team and wear a care tech startup based in Ottawa. Um, in terms of my background I think i. Sort of epitomize the concept of Jack of all tradesmaster of none at this point so I started my career as a chemical engineer I worked in manufacturing for a few years in chemical manufacturing food manufacturing and it was just enough time to be like nope this is not for me. Um. Then I moved to the Uk and did a master's in science communication and tried to freelance as a science journalist it was like no not for me. Um, then I did software sales for a startup. Um I worked for a science communication related nonprofit and then finally um. Long story short about two years ago I started developing a business plan for what is now wimble. So now I'm here.

01:29.49
mike_flywheel
So definitely a diverse set of backgrounds and skills I think that's probably 1 of the most useful things as an entrepreneur though is like the wide variety of skill set. How big is the wimbled team today.

01:44.41
Emma _she_her_
We are officially 3 people as of today. So I'm actually off on a little bit of and maternity leave right now. So I have coerce. My sister who's working on a business degree to step in for me for a few months and then we just hired. Um. Ah, business operations lead to help us with some behind the scenes stuff that has been falling through the cracks as well. So we're three and mighty.

02:06.30
mike_flywheel
That's amazing. A small startup family business. Awesome Um, maybe talk to us a little bit about will it.

02:08.69
Emma _she_her_
Exactly.

02:14.93
mike_flywheel
What you love most about what you're doing now. So you know we were talking a little bit before the show about you're you're off a little bit on an attempted maternity leave but on a smallm mighty team of 3 You're obviously still leaning in on the business. What what do you? love most about what you're doing and why you're continuing to put in the work even while sort of trying to balance a mat leave.

02:21.32
Emma _she_her_
But.

02:34.92
Emma _she_her_
Um, what has kept me um, unable to completely check out over the last couple months as much as I was hoping to is knowing that what we're working on has the potential to really tangibly impact users day-to-day lives. So. We did a whole round of customer discovery interviews in the past year and the stories that we heard during those conversations are um are pretty heartbreaking on a lot of levels so just having those constantly in the back of my mind that this is like some people's reality every single day is super motivating. Um. The other side of the coin that kind of keeps me really excited and feels like I can't take my foot off the pedal I was going to say the gas off the pedal but that's my brain fog speaking but I can't take my foot off the pedal right now is knowing that um it feels like we're kind of on the cusp of some pretty big. Um, changes happening in the disability tech space. So it feels like if we were to slow down right now we might kind of miss being on the leading edge edge of those changes that are coming and a lot of that has to do with covid like it's really expose the gaps in our current care systems and. Hopefully open some doors for more innovation within home healthcare care delivery that we can take advantage of so it's partly um, I'm still doing this in my limited free time at the moment because um I know we're going to be able to help people in their dayto day lives but it also feels like we're we're we've got really good timing at the moment.

04:00.18
mike_flywheel
Well I'm I'm super tempted to jump into hearing your pitch so we can talk more about the business but maybe before we do, Um, maybe you can tell us a little bit about when I know you talked about how you started your journey but what was like the deciding factor. Because you went all in on on Wimbble and you're working full time at wimble and so what was the deciding factor for you when when did you sort of decide and become inspired to to go all in and be an entrepreneur.

04:28.30
Emma _she_her_
It was the culmination of many years of ah personal lived experience. So um I have had this in the back of my mind for a long time now. Um as a bit of personal background I have a brother with mine abifida so he uses a wheelchair. And he's reliant on daily attendance services. Um, which to those who aren't familiar is what we call like when a personal support worker a psw comes into your home and helps you take a shower go to the bathroom. Some people need assistance with eating or drinking like just very basic personal needs. Um, so in his case he has someone who comes in for a couple of hours every morning helps with his morning routine and then for the rest of the day. He's largely independent so 99% of the time. Um, he can take care of himself for the rest of the day but with. When something unexpected comes up during those other like 22 hours of the day or when his routine caregiver doesn't come in for whatever reason like if she has child care issues or there's a massive snowstorm or there's a massive protest that blocks the streets of Ottawa. Um, because I live down the street from him I typically get the call for assistance. So. I've had a lot of late night walks home from his apartment thinking about how I wish he had more options than calling me at midnight. Um and having to bribe me with ice cream sandwiches to help him. Um, and then when I was taking ah pro I was doing a graduate diploma at Carlton and I just randomly um, chose an elective in social entrepreneurship and the final.

05:53.50
Emma _she_her_
Project was to basically develop a business plan for a social enterprise and it really forced me to sit down and like flesh out this idea how it could be sustainable. What a revenue model would look like how it could possibly get off the ground and then once I started thinking about it that was kind of the moment where I was like okay someone's got to solve this and. I Guess if it's not me then who else so I felt like it was kind of my not responsibility but my opportunity to really tackle this and figure it out.

06:19.45
mike_flywheel
It's amazing. It's such a heartwarming story and I think it's like you've already warmed up for the pitch So you've already have given it. Yeah.

06:23.20
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, well we we joke that I'm spending a significant amount of time and a significant amount of money just trying to get out of helping my brother a few text weeks. So I don't know if I'm a good sister terrible sister this way.

06:39.11
mike_flywheel
All right? We're going to learn a lot about you know the best businesses obviously come from people who have you know their own challenges inconveniences or frustrations. Um, so maybe let's let's jump into it. It's that time.

06:50.45
Emma _she_her_
Um.

06:53.20
mike_flywheel
Emma Give us your best elevator pitch. Please.

06:54.47
Emma _she_her_
Okay, so if you are one of your loved ones is one of the two point seven million canadians who relies on home care services. You know that every day is dependent on a caregiver showing up to assist with basic personal needs such as bathing bathroom routines and eating or even drinking. Despite over $6000000000 already being spent annually on home care here in Canada alone. The system is broken. No one's needs are being fully met and unmet needs mean people with physical disabilities are missing work. They're dropping out of school or facing limitations on participation in social activities in sports. Wimble is closing that unmet needs gap by creating a backup tool for people with physical disabilities to access qualified vetted caregivers on demand think like an uber for for personal care attendance. Our 2 sided marketplace will connect caregivers with individuals employers venues and more and do so in a way that infuses dignity and joy back into the home care experience. We love to connect with anyone committed to creating a more inclusive society while having some fun along the way.

07:56.39
mike_flywheel
Wow I Only know is that a good but I think and I think I've got goosebumps. It's such an amazing story and you've weaved in like some very real problem statements that I'm sure so many people are dealing with right now or can empathize with um, there's a bunch of things I want to ask.

07:59.25
Emma _she_her_
It's been a while since I've had to do that.

08:14.19
mike_flywheel
Maybe let's start with and because we sort of covered this a little bit but how how did this get started.

08:23.12
Emma _she_her_
It's a good question. So yeah, it started with the business plan when I was taking that elective at Carlton and that was in the winter of um, two Thousand Twenty Twenty so yeah just a ah great time to be trying something new. Um, and I think I quit my job that summer and took this on full time. Um I should give a huge disclaimer because I don't want to give the illusion that I'm like bootstrapping this solo and um and doing this all alone but I do have a really supportive. Um family who's helping me get this off the ground I come from an entrepreneurial family. So I have a pretty dedicated family member who's operating as my angel investor because he's also recognized the need for this service. So that's been just yeah, hitting the jackpod as an entrepreneur and I don't want to don't want to take that for granted for sure. Um, so I was able to quit my job in the summer of 20 um got started. By myself. Um, started figuring out how to incorporate like all the the fun stuff that just takes time and kind of is a bit of a distraction from figuring out your sort of core mission but has to get done and the the big grand scheme of things. Um, and then yeah, it's just been. And moving along since then.

09:36.54
mike_flywheel
That's amazing and so wimble where where did the name come from and it was it your first iteration of the name I'm curious. So.

09:46.20
Emma _she_her_
So It's It's kind of a long story but it started my initial ah name was Tender. So um, the the people who provide these caregiving services for people with physical disabilities are called Attendance. Um, and to me it was really funny. It was a funny play on words to have ah a marketplace app called Tender obviously making fun of um or kind of ah jumping off the back of another well-known um 2 sided marketplace app out there. So I thought it was funny. Um. A few lawyers told me it was less funny and more potentially a lawsuit waiting to happen and then a few people also told me it was a bit confusing because unless you're actively living in the space or familiar with with the concept of attendant people were like Well. What's a tender where does that come from so we ended up deciding to change our name. Um. But I couldn't come up with anything that brought me as much joy as tender because it really did make me laugh every time I had to use it So I ended up going to a naming agency in the states who their like full time job is just naming stuff whether that's a product or a company. Um and they were able to help us come up with wimble. Based on the concept of like what we're trying to do is ultimately give people with physical disabilities some spontaneity some ah nimble whimsy in their life like just introduce that concept of like giving people some freedom So That's where the name came from.

11:07.64
mike_flywheel
That's amazing. Well I'm sure you would have got a lot of website hits for people who might misspell the other 2 sided marketplace and find right attend tender will almost mess that one up I didn't even know and.

11:14.70
Emma _she_her_
Yeah.

11:21.65
mike_flywheel
I'm sure it made sense that it existed but I've never heard of or seen a naming company where where did you even first learn about that. Did you like is this fiverr. Did you search it out. Did you know about it from before tell me more.

11:35.70
Emma _she_her_
It is so random but I remember years ago reading a blog where someone talked about um how their job their other they were a blogger and then their other job was literally being a product namer and they were talking about how they had a chance to name Wendy's baconator and I remember at the time thinking like that is insane that someone's full-time job is to just literally sit there brainstorming iterations and iterations of names and and um, ah yeah ideas for naming products and and companies so that was always kind of in the back of my mind that there was this whole industry that existed. So when I had decided. Okay, we've got to move on from tender I've got to let it go as much as it breaks my heart. Um and I couldn't come up with anything else I kind of pulled that out of the recesses of my brain where I wish slightly more important information was taking up space but there it was ah.

12:20.49
mike_flywheel
Well I'm glad I didn't call you baconator or tendon in your terminator or some I do like the name wimble. That's a super cool story. But what's the company called in case, anyone else is sort of looking for a similar.

12:28.17
Emma _she_her_
Ah, there there were a lot of eightrs on their suggestion list. So it could have been.

12:39.15
Emma _she_her_
Oh my goodness. Um I think it's called eat my words but I can share you the name if you want to put it in the show notes.

12:42.30
mike_flywheel
Ah, we'll we'll look it up after and put it in the yeah, we'll put in the show notes um, rough ideas this like a super expensive thing to do you don't have to even share the price but like is this like hundreds of dollars thousands of dollars.

12:56.34
Emma _she_her_
I believe with the package we went with um, it was at a time where we were really full steam ahead finger at our tech stack and we had a million things on the go. So it was one of those things where I was like I'm just going to throw money at this which like. It maybe isn't the best thing to have when you're trying to bootstrap it start a p ground but it is what it is so um I think it was in the low thousands. Um, but I believe they also had kind of Diy packages so there were a variety of different options of yeah getting ah getting a name and to me it's it's It's like truly a marketing expense like if you get the right name and you get the right? Um, kind of brand recognition started off the ground then I hope it'll pay itself back in the future.

13:35.88
mike_flywheel
Yeah, totally agree. That's Awesome. So Let's talk a little bit more about wimble then um, you talked about your brother and people that maybe are in similar Situations. You talked about your own experiences who specifically uses wimble. Who's the who's your main Target Market is it someone like yourself is it. Your brother is it. Both.

13:57.22
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, So um, we're essentially a 2 wo-sided marketplace So we have the really fun challenge of having 2 customers that we have to please so on one side. Um our target. Um, Market is a person like my brother who's a young independent Adult. He self-manages his own care like he can say to a caregiver this is how I want my t-shirt put on or here's how my bowel routine works or whatever like he can really be in charge of that process. Um, so that's the one side of it is the clients with the physical disabilities. Um, and then on the other side. We also kind of treat the supply side as a customer base where we need these caregivers like these are people with essential skills. Um, who are qualified and trained to provide this this type of personal care. So They're also um, someone like a group that we're trying to add value to as well.

14:44.10
mike_flywheel
That's amazing and so how how does this work today like prior to wimble when your brother needed assistance. How did that work did he always have to call a family member where would he source ah an attendant. How does that normally work today. What is this industry even called for.

15:01.72
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, um, so this is um, we consider ourselves part of the home care industry. Um, and so for anyone like my brother bunch of our friends who rely on home care services like they have a physical disability and they need that daily support There are quite a few different channels that exist to getting that routine care. Um, so for example here in Ontario and other provinces have similar programs. There's a program called direct funding. So it's a program that you apply for um and if you're an independent adult with a physical disability and you're capable as I mentioned of managing your own caregivers. You can apply to be on direct funding. So that's basically a program where you get a chunk of money each month and you're in charge of hiring managing paying your own attendance scheduling et cetera so that's one channel you essentially become your own little business There are also care coordinators that work within the provincial ministries of health. And they work with the client and then preapproved home care agencies to set up ah routine visits. So to say like okay Monday Wednesday Friday you'll have someone for 2 hours kind of thing and then there are people who pay privately for their own care whether that's topping up what the government has allotted them or covering their their own expenses. Um, and then there's also supportive housing so there's apartment units where um, people can get a spot in them and there's massive waitlist for these units but you could get into a supportive housing unit and technically have onsite access to twenty four seven care but of course it's not perfect as as nothing really is in our healthcare system right now.

16:34.82
Emma _she_her_
So there's quite a few channels to to get home care but the basic underlying concept is that they're all pretty reliant on pre-scheduled routines like knowing that this is exactly what you'll need at your home on these days of the week there's nothing that really fills in the gaps around that.

16:49.31
mike_flywheel
Got it. So maybe talk to me a little bit about that. So what problems specifically are you solving? There's obviously different varieties of care or ways people can access attendance or self-manage. But what specific problem is Wimbles solving.

17:06.39
Emma _she_her_
So The the big problem that we're solving is that if you're an independent adult like you want to go to school you want to go to work. You want to go to a bar with your friends you want to go to a music festival like you want to just live your life doing very normal things. Um, it's really hard if not impossible to have. Any level of spontaneity or flexibility in your day So You're really tied to either if you're getting your home care through an agency. You're super dependent on them saying here's when we can be there work your day around that you're dependent on someone actually showing up so we've heard horror stories of of. Agencies like messing up bookings and someone not showing up and keep in mind that like the clients that we're targeting some of them can't get out of bed without assistance. So There's these people that just like live every day in fear of not knowing or stress of not knowing if someone's going to show up the next day. Um, so. We're really trying to address that issue of like there needs to be a backup safety net for this this type of service. Um, and then on kind of a more systemic level. Um, there is a really significant cost to the the province and essentially to us as taxpayers of not addressing people's needs. As they come up. So if you talk about like physical health if someone needs help going going Pete like getting catheterized and their caregiver doesn't show up that could kind of snowball into urinary tract infection which is like it can be a chronic long-term health issue that costs way more to address in terms of doctor's visits and.

18:36.97
Emma _she_her_
And medication and so on versus just paying ah a personal support worker or show up to catherize them or bed swords are another chronic issue that people in this space deal with um, we talk to someone we have a client on our beta service right now who requires twenty four seven care so we always has to have someone with him and his. Current last resort right now if say one of his caregivers cancels for their 8 hour shift at the last minute and he can't find someone to fill in he has to call 9 one 1 and get taken to the hospital in an ambulance. So the cost of an ambulance paramedics the hospital. The. The space like the physical space in the hospital to house him for that 8 hour shift like that's a huge cost so we're trying to also address the fact that it's it's really inefficient to be letting these problems go and unresed.

19:24.68
mike_flywheel
Wow I mean the inefficiencies are definitely 1 thing but especially when you were talking through the scenarios of how people are trying to live their lives every day. I even just try to think of like my own calendar or schedule or day and how many things come up in a day that are unplanned or pivots or changes that I need to adapt to I'm sure I'm not the only person like that and so. When you start to think about all of the things that you're able to to do for yourself and if someone else is in a scenario where they're not able to do some of those things they're they're so stuck and this on-demand component that you talk about sorry sorry to interrupt.

20:01.77
Emma _she_her_
And it. No I was just going to say sorry interview it like affects people on a professional level when it comes to like their work schedules. It affects them on a personal social level like the reality is some people can't accept a last-minute invite to to drinks after work or like. Um, we we heard one story where a guy was at work and his attendant canceled and he had to ask his boss to help him catheterize and that's like a dignity issue and it really impacts your mental health. It impacts your your kind of comfort level in the workplace like there's just it impacts on every single level of someone's life. So it's. Really profound for sure.

20:45.50
mike_flywheel
Um I it can't help but think about the fact that we're we're talking about people living with disabilities. Um, but it sounds so oddly familiar even to our aging population in Canada. Now. You've you've started it sounds like or maybe do cater to both audiences is that in the cards are you staying pretty focused at the time being just to you know, optimize how you provide your service tell me but more more about that? yeah.

21:13.80
Emma _she_her_
Yes, so this has been a pretty um, pretty calculated move on our part is that we really for now want to stay super heavily focused on young independent adults. We're looking for like a tech ah tech forward solution to this problem. Um, we want to be like a a cool hip, a tech company and I sound like a lame mom saying that but we want to be like a fresh tech company because there's not a lot of stuff coming out in the disability space that is cool like and I don't think we can force ourselves to be cool, but we definitely don't want to be like a. Ah, corporate or like institutionalized like um hearts and rainbows kind of thing. We want to be like a tech forward tech company to solve this problem. Um, so we really want to focus on like we are helping young independent adults live their lives and that's kind of our our core mission for now that. The senior space is like this whole other ballgame that we'd love to tap into in the long run because kind of unfortunately fortunately that's where a lot of the money is being spent especially in Canada right now is helping people age at home. So that's definitely where the more exciting and more lucrative funding opportunities sit but. Figuring out how to get my grandparents to turn their cell phone on let alone download an app. Um, request a stranger to come to their house. That's like just a whole other thing that I'm not ready to solve yet. But it's definitely on our radar for the future.

22:34.89
mike_flywheel
Yeah, you effectively need to engage a third piece of the marketplace which is the people that they potentially lean on as caregivers to since it's a third party so totally makes sense now you've talked about tech company tech forward how does wimble work.

22:39.75
Emma _she_her_
Exactly? Yeah yeah.

22:54.73
Emma _she_her_
So we um as much as I say we're tech for it and and we're doing all these exciting things like we are totally reinventing the wheel. Um Marketplaces have existed for well over a decade now and everyone pretty much everyone uses a marketplace in some form every day. So whether that's uber eats or. Airbnb and or taskrabbit or whatever we're just really taking that concept and applying it to the personal care home care space. So ultimately, um, our app once we start working on the native version. It will work just like an uber like my first wireframes that I made during that course at Carlton. I think I literally screenshoted the uber app and slapped a new logo on the top like to show the Gps tracking and estimated time of arrival for a caregiver. Um, so we're not doing anything that novel from a tech perspective but we are applying it to a space where we're finding. There is a lot of resistance to. To this approach so that's kind of the the big challenge of it all, um, and eventually we'll have this beautiful slick native app that tracks caregivers estimated time of arrivals because that's another huge gap in current solutions like we've heard stories of people calling for calling an agency for help and them saying yep, we'll send someone. And you don't know if they're coming in the next five minutes or the next eight hours you're essentially living your life like you're waiting for the the internet repair guy every day where you got that 9 am to five zero Pm window we want to have like ratings and ranking systems so people can get transparency and make sure there's high quality.

24:21.52
Emma _she_her_
Ah, we can help those self managers who are on direct funding with billing like there's lots of ways to expand the platform to to add value and ah in um, multiple channels.

24:30.67
mike_flywheel
That impressive totally makes sense like obviously there's many Two- sided marketplaces out there. Um, the specialness sometimes is understanding the problem. So Well that you understand how to apply a 2 wo-sided marketplace to it and it seems to be that. That's what you're doing. You've got some very deep. Understanding of how this works and the the realities of the people that live with these challenges every day. Um, do you have competitors in this space.

24:58.57
Emma _she_her_
Um, we aren't currently finding anyone who's directly tackling this problem specifically for adults with physical disabilities. Australia actually has a pretty interesting care industry happening right now. So there's a few companies in Australia who are kind of. Tackling more of the matching problem where they're giving clients agency over choosing choosing their caregiver because right now if if you're getting home care services in Canada through like the local the lin the local health integration network like through the provincial government. You don't know who's showing up at your house the next day like you have no control over who's coming. Um, what their skill level is if you've met them before like there is no um, no control whatsoever. So we've found a lot of companies where they're saying like you can read someone's profile and learn about their likes and dislikes and get to know them more on a personal level before you decide to commit to them as your caregiver because this is a really intimate process that people are. Kind of going into. Um but we've yet to to come across anyone in this space who's really tackling this focus on independent adults with physical disabilities with that on demand aspect of like this is where I am this is what I need and I need it now send someone asap.

26:10.54
mike_flywheel
So so it totally makes sense. Interesting question on that does this mean that the individual requesting the care or assistance. Um, they may wish to use the same person but the same person. Over and over again isn't necessarily as important as the flexibility and the on-demand nature and the on-demand nature is sort of the thing that you are looking to solve that others are not today. So.

26:32.65
Emma _she_her_
Yes, so this is kind of something that we feel like it's it's kind of this ongoing debate of like are we trying to make this experience as pleasant as possible or are we just trying to get someone's needs met so they can get their shit done. Sometimes literally and get on with their day. Um, and so that's definitely something that we're going to be sort of iterating as we go as of right now we have such a small pool of of supply on the supply and demand side that we are probably going to see a lot of repeat customers and a lot of repeat caregivers. But as we expand and grow to different cities and. And we accommodate people who are traveling like that's another big um value proposition on the demand side is like for my brother to for me so starting with me for me as an able-bodied person I could go down to the via rail station and hop on a train toronto in half an hour and not think twice about it I know that when I get there. I'll eventually find a hotel room that hotel room will have a bathroom where I can shower go to the bathroom and take like go to sleep for the night for my brother. He's everything has to be premeditated like he has to either bring someone with him and um, one of our friends calls it. The friend tendant where you have like a close. Um, personal friend who's also comfortable providing care for you or you have to like bring a family member and it just takes so much coordination and planning to just take a spontaneous one night trip to toronto from Ottawa like there's no flexibility. Um, so that's another big value add is like knowing.

28:06.45
Emma _she_her_
Just like if you get on a plane and get off at an airport in Boston you know there's going to be a newber driver sitting there waiting for you. We want to be able to have this like ubiquitous app where you can get off that plane in Boston and know that someone's going to be there to help you go to the bathroom or take a shower the next morning.

28:22.64
mike_flywheel
That's amazing. Yeah I think there's probably even a scenario in the future where your solution could offer both or maybe it already does offer both but to your point there's a value placed on convenience in this scenario that many times will. Will overshadow the need for having the same person in a familiarity scenario so you might have a familiar attendant that you actually use but you'd still augment with wimble because there's so many scenarios that you can't plan for so it totally makes sense. Um, where or how does the business model work like where where does wimble make.

28:48.52
Emma _she_her_
Exactly yeah.

28:58.39
mike_flywheel
Make money is it Ah is it a subscription service. How does how does that work. So.

29:03.86
Emma _she_her_
That's the big question right now is how to how to make this sustainable So right now The the current revenue model is to just do what other marketplaces are doing and take ah a transaction fee or take a small cut of each transaction. Basically um. But we are learning that you have to do a lot of transactions to make those little sense. Add up. Um, even to cover our expenses So in the meantime we've started exploring a few extra revenue channels to kind of make this a bit more sustainable So one is a subscription model where say for example, you're a big employer. So um.

29:38.80
Emma _she_her_
I'll take um like ah a big bank. So say you're the bank of Montreal and say you have an employee who works in your customer service department who has a physical disability. Um, we've heard through our customer discovery interview scenarios where someone goes to work for the day. And every day at lunchtime and a tenant comes into the workplace helps them eat their lunch helps them go to the bathroom and get back to their desk so say you're at work and it's 10 a m and your a tenant who's supposed to be there at twelve Zero p m cancels and they say sorry I've got covid or I don't have child carere. Whatever I quit whatever they don't show up at noon. From 10 a m to 12 PM you're either scrambling to find someone to fill that gap. So you're losing that productivity in your workday or you're heading home because your parents are at home or you know there's someone at your home who can help you so the the value to the employer in getting them to pay that monthly subscription fee is going to be like. Let's give your employee peace of mind that they can stay in the workplace for the day they can focus on their job and will take care of making sure there's someone there to help them if their regular person Cancels. So that's kind of the the subscription model that we're um, looking at exploring and then we're also looking at. More of an events partnership model. So for 1 ne-off events like a conference or a music festival. Um, even sports like ah tournaments we want to be able to go to the event organizers and say.

30:56.63
Emma _she_her_
In order to offer an actually inclusive experience. It's not just about making sure there's a ramp um or a wheelchair accessible bathroom but to actually offer a truly inclusive experience for your attendees um will help you station onsite attendance so that if. Someone comes to your conference.. There's a speaker at your conference or there's people coming to your music festival who want to hang out for the day and enjoy their day and have a few beers go to the bathroom Occasionally we'll make sure there's someone there who's qualified. They're vetted. They've got the proper insurance to be on site and help the. Venue offer that experience to everybody so that they can enjoy whatever it is whether it's a conference or a festival or or sons game or a leafs game I guess.

31:34.70
mike_flywheel
It's super smart. Yeah, like it's like a super important piece that companies and event hosters should be considering as part of their all up accessibility and inclusion totally makes sense and and you know otherwise you're like hiring someone for the day where you finding them. Are they qualified what if they're not available what if you need 2 what if you need 6 totally makes sense. Um, so you're making money as ah as a percentage of the transactions. You've got some subscription model working with ah businesses as part of your customer base where you're not necessarily going directly to the end user. Um.

31:57.64
Emma _she_her_
Ah.

32:12.50
mike_flywheel
Maybe let's talk about what's one of your most memorable stories on this journey so far.

32:20.18
Emma _she_her_
Um, there's so many like yeah the customer discovery interviews like anyone who works in government policy for home care needs to read my customer discovery transcripts before they go back to their job. So the one that sticks out the most happened a few months ago um and it was a friend of ours who lives in a supportive housing unit. So when you talk to the provincial government. Their kind of gold standard for solving this problem is to get people into supportive housing where they live in an apartment unit that's serviced by twenty four seven onsite attendants and I say twenty four seven heavily emphasizing quotes because that is not the case in reality. So their gold standard is we'll get people to supportive housing and they kind of dance around the issue of like there's 10 year waiting list for these apartments. How are you going to address this in the meantime but that's a whole other story so we have this friend who lives in a supportive housing unit. So. On paper. She's got the perfect scenario. She's got access to twenty four seven support in theory she should be able to make a call down to the desk stationed in her apartment building and say I need help they send someone scurrying up right away to help her and she's off on her way with the rest of her day in reality. They have very strict limitations on what the what each client's like care routine actually is so a doctor dictates saying this is exactly what this client needs help with and anything outside of those boundaries. The agency won't provide assistance with they say nope that's not in the scope of your care plan. So a few months ago I got a call from a friend.

33:47.77
Emma _she_her_
And she lives in a supportive housing unit and um, this is a unit that she's been placed in it's it's ah subsidized on some level by the government like this is something. It's not necessarily the building or the area. She wants to live in but she's been put here and it's kind of the best solution that anyone's come up with. And she called me to say that there was a pest control issue in her apartment building and the the superintendent was sending fumigating teams through to fumigate the apartments and um, she has a cat. She has a bunch of stuff and the fumigation team gave her a notice that you have to have everything cleared off your countertops and put away. And you have to get your cat out of the apartment while they're fumigating so she went to her twenty four seven full support system and they said nope that's not in the scope of your care. So she's sitting there with a cat in this perfect scenario apartment and can't get the help she needs. So just like. To me it really hammered home. The fact that like even in this very perfect situation where someone's theoretically gotten to the pinnacle of the best care she can expect to receive. She's still being left out in the cold where she's got a cat. She's got to deal with and she's got a bunch of stuff that she doesn't want covered in chemicals and how do you deal with that. So there's just that was. 1 of many many many many examples of where the the system's falling short right now.

35:03.24
mike_flywheel
Well, it sounds like you could write a novel just on all these examples of people you've talked to but it comes down to all the same thing which is no matter how much you try to plan to live a life in the way you aspire to? there's going to be things that are unplanned.

35:21.66
Emma _she_her_
Her hair.

35:22.60
mike_flywheel
And so where or how do you help in those scenarios and many people lean on friends or family but at some level they can't always potentially be there nor does everyone have the convenience or luxury of necessarily having friends or family nearby at all at all times. So it it totally makes sense. What would you say.

35:36.74
Emma _she_her_
Exactly.

35:42.25
mike_flywheel
You know we talked about some of your most memorable stories. Um, this may also be a memorable story. But what? what do you think has been the hardest part for you So far you have to pick one I guess.

35:52.80
Emma _she_her_
Way. Yeah, well okay I'm going to pick four and this might turn into a bit of a rant but I'll try to keep it short so there's it's kind of like a fourway tie for what's been way harder about this than I ever anticipated so on like a. Big picture systemic level. Um, when you're operating as a social enterprise in Canada It's super challenging to find funding so when I first started working on this. He talked to people and they're like oh that's a great idea. Do you should go for it like we need this and then when you actually get down to the nitty-gritty of it. I'm not promising to be the next shopify like we're working in a space where on both sides we have like vulnerable or or already exploited workers. So we can't just go out maximizing profit across the board as much as we as much as a traditional investor might like we're reinventing the wheel from a tech stack perspective. So we're. We're having a hard time convincing like an iraper a shred that what we're doing deserves. Non-dilluted funding. So we're just stuck in this gray area of like we're a tech company. We're not going to be the next shopify. But we're also not a nonprofit so we don't qualify for charitable grants. So we're sort of left out of the existing streams and that's been a really big challenge from like a big picture level. Um, and then.

37:08.47
Emma _she_her_
The the biggest like short-term problem. We're facing right? now is tapping into the actual caregiving workforce and obviously we can't do what we want to do without the caregivers. Um, and let me tell you going out in the middle of a pandemic and asking health care workers to work more hours is not is not going. Well so. Um, we're we're having a ah pretty big challenge building up the supply side of our platform and we're kind of getting stuck in that like chicken or the egg dilemma of like do we build up the demand side and then go to the supply side and say we've got all these people ready to go. Do you just have to join us and get your insurance sorted out and stuff or do we build up the supply side. Get a bunch of caregivers on board it and then rushifying customers to to request their services so that's been a big challenge. Um, and then 1 thing that I also want to mention on more of like a personal level because it's something that I never anticipated happening but I think like founders have to be aware that this is a possibility is um, um. My founding chief technology officer like my co-founder passed away in a tragic accident last summer and this was never something I had in my roadmap of what it would be like in the first year of a tech startup and I don't wish it on anyone. It was horrific. He was a close family friend I'd known him for a long time i. Relied on him for everything from resetting my email password to building our website to setting up our tech stack like anything tech related I was just dumping on him and it was just horrific on so many levels. Um and I think it's just an important lesson.

38:37.47
Emma _she_her_
For founders to be really diligent about like setting up processes making sure you have a good password manager. Um, and that it's being updated frequently. Um, so that yeah, that was obviously a huge challenge that I didn't foresee and has like ongoing repercussions in both the business and my personal life. Um. And then on a slightly lighter note I Also don't recommend being pregnant and having a baby during your one of startup life. But again, that's potentially a whole other podcast with a lot more alcohol involved.

39:05.66
mike_flywheel
Well first of all my condolences on on the passing of your your co-founder you you hit on so many things there and it's it's the it's the challenges and you're you're kind of navigating the. Path forward because you're so bullish on actually solving this problem. So it's it's very admirable so you know continue the great work. Um, but I sort of had a question which was on the piece you mentioned about attendance and and the 2 sided marketplace I'm sure you've. Probably I already looked into this but do they have to be personal support workers in many of the scenarios that that you're talking about like it. It sounds like maybe there'd be a wider net of so many people after hearing this that would want to help and maybe they need to take a quick virtual course or I don't know what the. I don't know the criteria are but I'm sure there's some things they can do and some things they can't but could could other people that are in wherever you're we'll talk about it in a bit or wherever your beta market is could they volunteer or help or sign up can help.

40:13.88
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, for sure and I have a really bad habit of saying psw because I feel like that's a term most people are familiar with but really, it's the idea of an attendant. So Even now we're not requiring people to have that psw certification. Um, in fact, there's a ton of people that we already know within our own personal network who provide this kind of service and they don't have a psw certificate. It's really,. It's really just you have to be like ah a certain type of person who like has that caregiving and that nurturing Personality. We're looking for people who are able to like use humor to diffuse situations because like there's some crazy shit that happens when you're literally dealing with shit all day So we're looking more for like the right type of person who can who can help us like. Build the the kind of community we're looking to build rather than looking for like a specific academic certification. So for sure. We're very open to anyone who wants to fill that role.

41:06.42
mike_flywheel
Amazing and is there something that you can put in the show notes on how people could sign up if they want to help as part of that.

41:15.73
Emma _she_her_
Yes, for sure I will give you all the information to direct people our way. Um and particularly and we have we have kind of 2 two signups right now. So we have a signup for people in Ottawa who want to join the the active beta and then we have a waiting list for people outside of Ottawa so that we know like okay, we've got a ton of people. On our waiting list in Toronto where we have people on long island and Chicago and Newfoundland like we want to figure out where to go next once we once we figure out how to crack the market in Ottawa.

41:40.21
mike_flywheel
Makes sense. So Maybe this is the perfect transition to talk about it sounds like you've launched or in some regards So maybe talk about like where you are at and where wimble is at are people using it. How many if you're comfortable sharing where is it available. It sounds like you can kind of bundle all that together and you started talking about it. So what? let's let's just go through it. Yeah.

42:04.39
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, so we have officially launched our web-based beta versions. So. It's a pretty basic um ah basic iteration of what we envision in the long-term just to sort of test out the concept and and see how it goes. Ah, we have a very small pool of users right now like in the single digits on both sides of the marketplace but that's okay, we're really trying to focus on like figuring out how to do this? Um, we're not like selling t-shirts like these are real. People's lives so we want to make sure that we're vetting the caregivers properly vetting the clients properly because we also want the caregivers to feel safe. Um, and yeah, just taking things a little bit slowly because I'm typically a very um, precautious person by nature. So especially working with my sister who's way more aggressive than me. She's like let's go let's go and I'm like oh let's just slow down and make sure everything's perfect before we keep going which is definitely a ah problem. Um, but yeah, so we do have ah a web-based beta version of the marketplace app live right now and then um, one of the things I mentioned earlier which is at events partnership model. We just finished our first pilot trial with that model. So my sister actually came across this opportunity with a. Learned to wheelchair curl program here in Ottawa so the Ottawa Valley Curling Association held a ten week ah clinic basically where they were teaching people in wheelchairs how to curl and so she connected with the organizers and said hey can we put an attendant on the.

43:29.33
Emma _she_her_
I don't know what a curling rink is called but on the the pad or whatever it's called and have them stationed there to assist anyone with anything that they need so. There's things like if there's a snowstorm someone's going to need help getting from the the paratranspo van that drops them off to the door of the building like that fundamentally basic of help. There's people that need assistance taking their medication during curling people that need help like positioning the oh god I I don't know curling terms but like positioning the stick in the Rock. Um, so anyway. She just finished that ten week pilot trial of that model as well. So that was really exciting to get what example under our bell of how we can add value to these sort of 1 off partnerships.

44:07.16
mike_flywheel
Well congrats I think having launched and having customers using your solution and having already made a micro pivot along the way both in your name and then also in having to you know, augment. And how you provide the service to keep things moving and keep money coming in congrats on that. That's a huge a huge milestone you've taken it from idea to to reality and you're helping real people. Um, and I think I think that's amazing when you look forward. Um, sort of the the next. six months what what would you say the next six months has hasn't store for you. Maybe that's long. Maybe you're just like hey I just want to get through the week Mike Ah but might like yeah like next six weeks your daughter's walking I don't know like six six months from now like yeah, so.

44:50.35
Emma _she_her_
Yeah I just like to get through the next ten minutes no ah yeah ah minor minor details. Yeah.

45:01.83
mike_flywheel
Like explains So what? What do? what? do you think things have in store for for wimble and yourself.

45:07.80
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, so number 1 we really want to get some more momentum going on our marketplace side. Um I think it's yeah as you said it like it's great that we have something out there and we're sort of slowly slowly testing it. But I think we do need to get some momentum going on that side because that's ultimately like the big picture. Thing that will help us accomplish our our vision and our mission. Um, and then in the meantime my sister is going to keep running with the events partnership model. So we're in the process over the next few weeks of reaching out to some big festivals and conferences like Canada day on Parliament Hill just some big events that happened here in Ottawa to reach out to the event organizers and say here's what we can offer. Um and here's the value we can add to your attendees and try to get some more kind of bigger pilot trial program set up for the summer to test that out further.

45:54.98
mike_flywheel
Um, and maybe you've got this list. Maybe maybe I'm putting you on a spot. But if if people are interested in helping um, not necessarily just like volunteering and you know helping as an attendant with with Wimbo but is there an ask to anyone that's listening to this podcast.

46:12.73
mike_flywheel
Of like the top 2 or 3 ways that they could potentially help you and the team on your journey with wimble.

46:22.11
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, a huge 1 right now that I would love to hear from anyone who can help with is on solving that chicken or the egg dilemma of like which side like which side do we focus on catalyzing to get this the momentum growing and a marketplace. Um i've. Read all the blogs and listened to a bunch of podcasts from other marketplace founders and it usually involves someone like literally like the task rabbiit founder running around Boston for a year doing tasks convincing her friends to request that she pick up her dry cleaning going to pick up their dry cleaning dropping it off at their house like there I've kind of heard the like. The the potential ways to do this. But when it comes down to like this very um, this very intimate space of like someone going into someone's house and helping them with this intimate thing. Um I need a little bit more help. So if anyone has any advice to offer on the the solving of the chicken or the egg dilemma in the home care space I would love to hear from them. Um, and then if if you're an events organizer if you know anyone who's an events organizer and you're willing to do a customer discovery interview to help us figure out how to grow that channel as well. Um, because that to us is going to be the much quicker path to revenue at this point like the marketplace is going to take a long time and as I mentioned it's going to take a lot of transactions to add up to anything meaningful. Um, so we want to definitely get that events partnership underway and then third if you're a big employer or you're an insurance company or you're anyone who might get some value out of that monthly subscription model to offer that to your employees or your clients I'd love to connect as well. So.

47:49.55
Emma _she_her_
Yeah, basically just anyone reach out to me and I'll have questions for you At this point.

47:53.98
mike_flywheel
That's amazing. Well again congratulations so much on on officially launching you're doing amazing work I'm sure your brother and your family must be so incredibly proud. Um, my last question is actually the the fun part of the show. And and I'm going to pull a jump on you but before we close out I Want to know how many times fast you can say pitch please podcast You let me know you like you need a sip of water I saw you had a bubble tea going on to go there have that sip and then we're going to do a quick count and I want to see so far.

48:10.72
Emma _she_her_
Oh no. Ah.

48:22.13
Emma _she_her_
Ah, okay.

48:27.46
mike_flywheel
Actually I can tell you the record as long as if you can beat the record all right you you start on your own time pitch please podcast.

48:31.11
Emma _she_her_
Okay, so I'm doing pitch pitch please. Okay, okay I feel like I've been training for this reading baby Books So loud. Um, okay here we go pitch please podcast pitch please podcast pitch please podcast pitch please podcast which. But please Oh no. Ah.

48:48.83
mike_flywheel
Oh no, that's like 6 I'll give you six I we're going to give me 6 I'm not getting saved you beat the record but you'll have to listen to all the shows and find out where you fall with with a solid 6 Ah well Emma thank you for joining us today.

48:51.40
Emma _she_her_
Ah, that was a pity 6 but I'll take it. Ah.

49:01.60
Emma _she_her_
Ah.

49:05.15
mike_flywheel
Um, thank you? Everyone who tuned tuned in on the pitch please podcast to learn more about wimble. Um, we look forward to catching you all in the next episode if you or someone you know is a startup founder who would love to be featured on the show. Please reach out. We want to bring attention to all the amazing startups. And people behind them here in the canadian ecosystem Emma thanks again, any closing words on your side Thanks.

49:29.30
Emma _she_her_
No thanks Mike I really appreciate it and anyone's welcome to reach out to us on Twitter instagram or through our website I'd love to hear from you.

49:35.36
mike_flywheel
Thanks again, That's wimble connecting people with physical disabilities with On-demand attendance services so they can get help whenever they need it whenever unexpected issues Arise Thanks a lot Emma and have a great evening.

49:50.22
Emma _she_her_
Thanks Mike appreciate it.

49:57.70
Emma _she_her_
But we done.